The misunderstanding of the main objective of the Theosophical Society

Mankind or Humaneness, or both, that's the question.

Do we follow the right path?

On November 17, 2014 Theosophical Society (TS) celebrates anniversary, because on this day 139 years ago, the TS was founded in New York; not only for Theosophists a milestone, because this was doubtless - after almost 2000 years of euphemistically said euthanize spiritual truth - the starting point of the spiritual awakening of the modern western world. And the main objective of TS and today als of the Theosophical Movement is "to form the nucleus of a Universal Brotherhood of Humanity, without distinction of race, creed, gender and skin color". 1)

To form a brotherhood of humanity is the main objective, no doubt, but how we understand it? It's not a secret, that the term humanity has different meanings. What that means? I believe one aspect of it, and so far I wrote a couple of articles around that, f. e. "Whats wrong with the Theosophical Movement" or "The disgrace of materialism or: the main task of the theosophical movement", is, that humanity not only means humankind, as it is commonly understand, but that humanity here also means humanitarianism or more better HUMANENESS.

And that means not (or not only), we should build a nucleus of brotherhood of mankind. It means of course also, that we should build a nucleus of very humaneness or virtuous people, a group of people that live "the soul of the Wisdom-Religion, which is ethics and that is it, what Theosophy has to inculcate". (analogous HPB in "The Key to Theosophy") 2)

So, to "Live Theosophy", means nothing else as "making their spirit the sole mediator between them and the Universal Spirit, their good actions the only priests, and their sinful intentions the only visible and objective sacrificial victims to the Presence." (SD:I:208) in other words, to live the high moral and ethic guidelines of the esoteric teachings of buddha, today also known as Theosophy - or more concrete, the theosophical teachings that were given us through Madame Blavatsky - and that means to live as virtuous as possible.

This is the first and most important practical consequence of the teachings and by the way, to use luxury food (harm nature because wasting of natural ressources and also it harms the body) is also nonvirtuous as it is, to use sexual actions not only for reproducing, but only for sensual pleasures (See f.e. the behavior and consequences of the late Atlanteans in SD Vol.II)

And if we live virtuous, as a living theosophical example - the only right practial theosophy for us uninitiated beings - we can credible teach this ethics and in this way we carry into effect the - from my point of view - real goal of Theosophy, the brotherhood of humanity in the sense of humaneness and that of course "without distinction of race, creed, gender and skin color".
The latter part of the last sentence is not the problem today, as it was 139 years ago, but today the big challenge is the "philosophy" of insufferable hedonism based on brutal materialism of main parts of our society, that calling itself full of hubris "civilised".

So, humanity has unequivocally different meanings, and I claiming, that in that subject humaneness or virtuousness is equal if not more important as humankind, not only because of the logical truth, that in one sense without humaneness, there is no humankind at all.

1) se f.e. Wikipedia:
2) The Key to Theosophy by H. P. Blavatsky, Section 1, THEOSOPHY AND THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY, THEOSOPHY IS NOT BUDDHISM, Question: But are not the ethics of Theosophy identical with those taught by Buddha? and Section 2, EXOTERIC AND ESOTERIC THEOSOPHY, THEOSOPHISTS AND MEMBERS OF THE "T. S.", Question: Is the production of such healing adepts the aim of Theosophy?

2 Kommentar(e)

Bild des Benutzers Steven Otto

A Discussion on Facebook about that subject-realted issues:

C.S.: At first in 1875 there is spoken about we should build a nucleus of brotherhood. Later as the insight growth is mentioned that Brotherhood is a fact in Nature.In the constitution of the TS is showing dynamic growth. I think we should do the same.

Steven Otto: What do you mena with that in other words? "Later as the insight growth is mentioned that Brotherhood is a fact in Nature"

H.K.: Steven, you points are well taken. However, for the average human being, where us the role of these quite lofty ideals? What us the role for the family person? Is this role seemingly somehow less than helpful to the path if theosophy?

C.S.: There we practice the things we study in daily life of course...
Theosofia is so very practical...Initiation is a normal thing for everyday-life.

H.K.: So then Steven have you no use for the role

Steven Otto: Helena, I think, whether we live with a family or not, the high ideals are important, certainly more important for parents, because children learn from imitation. But it's true, that today it is difficult to live that ideals, sorrounded by a mostly nonvirtuous society, but also not impossible. It's all about awareness.
Explain a child, (f.e.) sweets are harmful for the body, so it is stupid, to eat sweets. This is true with scientific proof (industrial sugar harms the intestinal flora, destroy vitamines and so on) so why should we harm our body "the temple of our god", if also the penalty comes surely in form of illness? Afterwards it understand that, the further problems are weakness of will, which can be trained und negative influences f.e. from media or society which partly is not preventable, therefore we need strong persons, strong in faith (sensual pleasures are not the sin of live) and will and intelligent of course, than this not only fits for sweets, but for almost all luxury food.
However, no one from us is perfect, it's about the fact, that oneself has to go from his own stage of development towards to a more spiritual means a more virtuous life.

Steven Otto: Love Helena? How do you understand or define Love? True Love is from my point of view devoted, altruist care, I hope you understand what I mean, The highest and cleanest Love on earth is the love of a mother to her child and this is this kind of love I mean, true and eternal love and we should give this kind of love to all people, even to our enemies, but as I said, we are not perfect. So what do you mean, that there is no place for love? Do you mean love of bodies? That is not my cup of tea, except for recreation) because bodies are ephemeral, but not the soul or spirit. So what's important for me is nearness and tenderness of course, but love has for me nothing to do with sex, we should love the human behind the body.

Steven Otto: And what happens to a man or society who use sex only to satisfy the desire, is very clear from the theosophical teachings.

H.K: i Not just desire there is a middle ground here... Love for the purpose of connection and growth, soul growth occurs is many ways, and connection to all beings, on all levels, occurs in very many degrees....

I.P.: love is complete surrender and is the oposite of desire

Steven Otto: We are the "middle ground", so it is important in which direction we aspire to, more to the higher, the eternal spirit, or to the lower, the transitory matter, but every one decided this by himself. At the end of Vol. III of the SD you can find the following:

>>> The acme of Kâma is the sexual instinct, e.g., idiots have such desires and also food appetites, etc., and nothing else. Devachan is a state on a plane of spiritual consciousness; Kâma Loka is a place of physical consciousness. It is the shadow of the animal world and that of instinctual feeling. When the consciousness thinks of spiritual things, it is on a spiritual plane.
If one’s thoughts are of nature, flowers, etc., then the consciousness is on the material plane. But if thoughts are about eating, drinking, etc., and the passions, then the consciousness is in the Kâmalokic plane, which is the plane of animal instincts pure and simple. <<<

So it's important what "connection" between people do you mean, hopefully for yourself or your soul growth more a spiritual connection or connection of true love as I defined it above and not the physical connection and then even call it love.

H.K. Yes I agree with you that if we but keep our focus on the higher manas towards Buddhi...then even the food appetites, the pull towards,people or situations, can be gentle tugs invested with a higher motive or intention, which colors the interactions with all planes and manner of beings, elevating all the kingdoms and assisting in their upliftment, aiding nature and working with the Divine Plan for all that lives...

Steven Otto: I think we help nature with it spiritual development most effective, if we resist the lower pleasures and therefore strengthen our will. Will is a spiritual force and so much more materialistic someone live, much more weaken his will is. The gods of the ancient were all the summary of the highest virtues, reason and true love, so a spiritually life is to live the virtues, be reasonable and practice true love, even if it is not easy and the lower self suffer sometimes. This is, what we should do: Gain experiences during a virtue and reasonable live, to strive for integrating more and more the high theosophical ideals in our daily live and for example to founding an own family with many childrens can be a very wonderful experience.

I.P.: You re right Steven. The problem of western civilisations isthe self centration..and the missunderstanding of, I AM. I am not the centre of my universe and I AM is guided by Karma and the Pranas, the universal engergies emerging from the e elements.

C.S: Resist the lower pleasures is a big attraction we better let go.
Two main attractions are there in life 'love' and 'hate'.
Keep the middle and let them not be your motive if you don't want to feed them any more.

Steven Otto: Yes, large parts of this society and also many esoteric suffer on overconfidence I think. And Yes, If we not resist the lower pleasures, the unreason drive us fast not only in the physical dead.

H.K.: Ah but Steven if we resist, karma, persists. Worse, it even bears interest karmically...isn't this perhaps best addresses by the types of attachment mr. Judge so deftly describes in his translation on the Bhagavad Gita? There is no better translation and without Judge really how are we ever able to understand the depths of Blavatsky...

Steven Otto: Whats going on Helena, If man not resist it's lower pleasures, he drive himself fast into dead?! Do you realy mean, that through living all the lower pleasures, we can enter nirvana? Do you relay mean, if some think he sould kill a human (a lower pleasure), he should do so, because otherwise he create a bad karma?! And Mr. Jugde taught this? I'm speechless...

C.S.: Thoughts are living beings. If we nourish thoughts of attachments we feed them. So simple it is Otto, let go focus on the higher aspects.

H.K.; Ah you haven't read judge then... No wonder.... Well I have class soon and .use prepare but I shall pick up the thread soon...Theosophy without Judge is like coffee without a just leaks our all over the place...

Steven Otto: Helena, maybe you have a quote that your statement about Judge prove, because if everyone live his lower pleasures, this world will end up in chaos, and for realizing that, I do not need a teacher, that is simple logic and common sense, so of course we have to resist the lower pleasures and yes, "let go focus on the higher aspects" Is something I can agree, and if sometimes a lower pleasure pops up, it's a very good idea to ignore (resist) it, but not to live them!

M.R.J.: Pretty Good! "Universal Brotherhood" is mentioned over and over in the MLs. It has to be based on basic shared ideas and common sense to form a "Nucleus", which also includes basic ideas of Morality. They are inseparable.

S.O: Yes, Helena, Judge describes it well, the the "types" of attachment, is the key. Attachment to; yearning to understand the teachings, help humanity, purify our psyche and our physical, purify our motives, this influences our karmic kick back. I don't mean that our "motive" should be to obtain "good karma"... our motive is improvement of ourselves to help mankind as an act of brotherhood is as Steven said, a way to put the first object into action. Sometimes the student's karma is actually intensified as the motive changes; all of the previous energies that we were feeding with our lower energy, are activated. We see ourselves, so to say. It's hard to view that as a good thing when we are suffering or battling with the lower nature; "purification" is hard work on all levels.

Steven Otto: I agree fully sharon, great thoughts.
Only the lower person is suffering, particulary, if someone change his life from nonvirtuous to virtuous. If you have to do a virtuous action perhaps clean up, make sport, showering cold and so on, we often feel bad befor and during it, but afterwards it feels great, it's the joy of our higher self and the opposite are nonvirtuous actions, we feel good before and during it but afterwards ,there are the pricks of conscience and sooner or later, physical suffering.
And is it not an old philosophical truth, that life on earth means nothing else as to suffer?
But since I live mostly virtuous - and yes, the fight took many years and yes often I felt very bad, or more exactly my weaker self - I participate sometimes in a wonderfull joy of my heart. And the attacks from the "Kamaloka"are almost entirely disappeared, almost, not completely. Of course this joy is not comparable with the brutal physical joys, but some kind of spiritual joy on earth.
So "suffering" during the life an joy afterwards or conversely. The improvement of our personality/character is an important task in our life. And no (spiritual) fruits and no (spiritual) developement without effort.

Bild des Benutzers Steven Otto

The further development of the discussion above:

"Brotherhood is a fact in Nature" is true in the Abstract sense. In the MLs the Teachers refer to love of suffering humanity in the Whole as motivation. It is a mistake to try to universally apply this on the practical level, where discrimination is necessary, and the lower emotions rule are often confused with "buddhi" and the like.

Steven Otto
Mark, Brotherhood is of course not only a fact in abstract sense, but also in reality, And you say "to love the sufferiung mankind" what sounds realy bad for me, because I love a happy mankind and feel sad about the suffering mankind. We can apply univ...Mehr anzeigen

Steve it's like you feel the lower nature is the enemy...make friends with those little lives that we are trying to elevate not enemies...if children misbehave do we resist them: no we love them and teach them and they teach us too...everything is in the motive...and compassion is the emotion, love elevated to its highest...of which we are capable of...for all that lives..this is not just a process of is one of elevation...shall I still send you some more judge? I'm working now but I will if you are seriously interested...I am busy using compassion with my epileptic , suicidal, addicted, autistic, etc patients so let me know...they can't control their systems not because they don't want to but because they are sick...I can help them get that control back whole others would just sit back and judge them...

I think there is some difficulty with your English as a second language (I only speak one language myself.) "Discrimination" is used in terms of racism, but also means being able to tell truth from falsehood. "Suffering" Humanity because of i...Mehr anzeigen
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Steven Otto
Mark, thank you for enlighten me, I'm not a english native, maybe there is the reason but I'm convinced, that there is another way to express more clear also in english, but in language-matters I'm not an expert.
I also think, that compassion and love...Mehr anzeigen

I think you are right Steve, and Helena has a point also. One needs a "no nonsense" attitude toward the lower self, but also we Need the lower self also - so it becomes much a matter of "Control" in some things rather than "Killing off." Everybody has to work these things out for themselves.

Hi Steven, I think I have some reference to this discussion for you. Resting a bit on this beautiful Saturday...

What comes to my mind, is taken from the Bhagavad Gita, I use the Judge translation which I consider the finest. He also does a great job in these sticky Theosophical matters... In chapter the sixth the title is devotion by means of Self-Restraint. It also discusses intentions which is highly relevant to this discussion of motives. So it goes: "When he hath renounced all intentions and is devoid of attachment to all intentions and is devoid of attachment to action in regard to objects of sense then he is called one who hath ascended to meditation. (This is the part now coming that first alighted into my awareness...) He should raise the self by the Self; let him not suffer the Self to be lowered; for the Self is the friend of self and in like manner, self is its own enemy." There is a footnote at this point that says: In this play on "self" the Higher and the lower self are meant, in that the lower is the enemy of the Higher through its resistance to true development; ad the lower self is at the same time the enemy of its own best interests through its downward tendency.

Now back to the text of the Gita: Self is the friend of the man who is self-conquered; so self like a foe hath enmity to him who is not self-conquered; so self like a foe hath enmity to him who is not self-conquered. the Self of the man who is self-subdued and free from desire and anger is intent on the Supreme Self in heat and cold, in pain and in pleasure, in honor and ignominy The an who hath spiritual knowledge and discernment, who standeth upon the pinnacle, and hath subdued the senses (here it does not say resist you see Steven) to whom gold and stone are the same, is said to be devoted. And he is esteemed among all who, whether his friends or his enemies or those who stand aloof or remain neutral, with those who love and those who hate, and in the company of sinners or the righteous, is of equal mind.

He who has attained to meditation should constantly strive to stay at rest in the Supreme, (not resistance notice the shift here I think it is a crucial one), remaining in solitude and seclusion, having his body and his thoughts under control, without possessions and free from hope. He should sit in an undefiled spot, neither too high nor too low, and made of kusa grass which is covered with a skin and a cloth. There for the self's purification he should practice meditation with his mind fixed on one point the modifications of his thinking principle controlled and the action of the senses and organs restrained. Keeping his body, head and neck firm and erect, with mind determined, and gaze directed to the tip of his nose without looiking in any direction, with heart at peace and free from fear, the Yogee should remain, settled in the vow of the Brahmacharya, his thoughts controlled, and heart fixed on me.

The devotee of controlled mind who thus always bringeth his heart to rest in the Supreme reacheth that tranquility, the supreme assimilation with me...This divine discipline, Arjuna is not to be attained by the man who eateth more than enough or too little, nor by him who hath a habit of sleeping much, nor by him who hath a habit of sleeping much, nor by him who is given to overwatching. The meditation which destroyeth pain is prodeuced in him who is moderate in eating and in recreation, of moderate exertion in his actions, and regulated in sleeping and waking. When the man, so living, centers his heart in the true Self, and is exempt from attachment to all desires, he is said to have attained to Yoga. Of the sage of self-centered heart, at rest and free from attachment to desires, the simile is recorded, 'as a lamp which is sheltered from the wind flickereth not.'

When regulated by the practice of yoga and at rest, seeing the self by the self, he is contented; when he becometh acquainted with that boundless bliss which is not connected with objects of senses, and being where he is not moved from the reality:* here a footnoote "Reality," Nirvana and also complete realization of the True and the disappearance of the illusion as to objects and separateness.

 having gained which he considereth no other superior to it, and in which, being fixed, he is not moved even by the greatest grief; know that this disconnectio from union with pain is distinguished as yoga, spiritual UNION (caps mine) or devotion, which is to be striven after by a man with faith and steadfastly.

When he hath abandoned every desire that ariseth in the imagination and subdued with the mind the senses and organs which impel to action in every direction, being possessed of patience, he by degrees finds rest; and, having fixed his mind at rest in ...Mehr anzeigen

Off for my constitutional and more rest....hope you enjoyed the serious consideration I gave this discussion Steven, Namastae!
Toodle loo!

Steven Otto
H., 1st thanks for the very interesting quotes and that you took time to share it. Let me answer as following.

For the first quote, beginning with: "WHEN he hath renounced all intentions and is devoid of attachment to all intentions and is devoid of attachment to action in regard to objects of sense THEN...." or in other words, IF he is enlightened or illuminated, THEN...; but no one of us is really enlightened. Do you renounced all intentions? What's with eating? So this simple if/then clause is not applicable to us, us non-illuminated beings, full of volitional and none-volitional intentions.
However, I'll ask you a serious question now, do you think you are the higher self? And please consider, if I speak about resist, I mean the lower pleasures, the lower intentions and so on, not the lower or any self.

For the second one: There is spoken about "self-conquered...self-subdued and free from desire and anger..." other synonyms for illumination, but as I said, we are all imperfect, a commonplace. There you can find ideals, high ideals, and thats wonderful, and we should strive for that and if we see it so, then lets talk about this part:
"The man who hath spiritual knowledge and discernment, who standeth upon the pinnacle, and hath subdued the senses (here it does not say resist you see Steven)..." beside the fact, that it is in our daily live dangerous to subdued the senses, because we are not illuminated and living on a kind of a "higher plane" (cross a street in a city with subdued senses..), dear Helena, if I write 'resist', I mean it in the sense of 'bear up' or as I said before, if you want also 'ignore something' etc. And 'subdued' means also to 'bear down' etc. so it assisted my view in the matter of the lower pleasures, that have to be subdued and not to enjoy it, as you said, if I understand you correct.

The third one begins with: "He who has attained to meditation should constantly strive to stay at rest in the SUPREME, (not resistance notice the shift here I think it is a crucial one),...." Yes it is, no resist, but it is not about the lower pleasures, but the Supreme, a great difference, at least for me! We should resist against the lower desires in us, all this sick lower unreasonable impulses like for example hate, brute sexual pleasures, all the vice impulses, f.e. to kill something and so on, because if we not resist that lower impulses, it's all end up in chaos! And by the way, if you strive to controll your thoughts you also have to resist other thoughts. Letting pass away the unwanted thoughts (ignore) means nothing else, as to resist the impulse to follow this unwanted thoughts.

The fourth quote begins also with a synonym for the illuminated one (no, not the so called "Illuminati" but in the sense of true humans, real spiritual beings): "The devotee of controlled mind..." but our mind is not controlled, not fully. We all have thoughts, that rise in us, unwanted, because of our imperfection and mixing with the "lower plane". Oh yes, "This divine discipline," .. divine discipline.. do you think you can reach discipline, let alone divine discipline, without resist your lower desires? You kidding! If I said, change resist into ignore if you feel better with it, but the consequence have to be not to live the lower pleasures/desires, but - in any case - to abstain from it.

The last one contains "When he hath abandoned every desire that arise in the imagination and subdued with the mind the senses and organs which impel to action in every direction," I repeat myself, another synonym for true enlightened people (or do you control your organs with your spirit?). Do you think you are enlightened? And to "abandoned every desire" is only possible if we resist the lower desires and therfore, live the virtues and not, as you said, to live the lower desires, because this end up in chaos, as we can sadly monitor in slow motion in and with our society.

Thanks Steven please give me a chance to get back...very busy day today...will ponder and get back..but my sense from a quick read is that we are composite beings as is all of life...septenary, with different degrees of using our some kingdoms these principles are latent some more active. It is all in the motive for humanity, the intention if you will...even eating if approached without gratitude has its effects, our feeling when we cook...if not with love can be deleterious...Perhaps in healing work this resistance principle plays out most obviously..if you resist an illness you become sicker...if you have acceptance of a condition the illness can wash through you...and over and out. This has been proven. No we work with nature..we accept that there are just functions of the lower nsture, observe them, and then consult our Higher nature to determine which is the best place to direct their function. But all of this is subject to each individuals relationship to themselves. If one feels they would like to have a family life this is most honorable. If one overindulge in the physical nature that of course is an extreme and everything in moderation. Do I think I'm enlightened. That is s weird offputting question. Better to say we each have a spark of the Divine, each and everyone. Each has the potential to exercise that connection snd no one can do it for you. Each must be their own bridge...the path of another is full of danger. Notice how the words are about perception. Combating the lower nature sets up the war within ourselves. Awareness is gentler and for a reason. The shift is in perception. Make friends with your entire nature. If the body organs started warring with each other and the brain says I'm in charge, the kidneys no me, the liver I'm in charge what a sorry state of affairs the body would not function very well. If they all work together in harmony, is this not better, for each to understand and work in harmony and understanding with each other? This gives health. Yes you exercise control over the outcomes of your lower nature. You choose all the time if the impulse to act is to be taken. The decision depends which plane your motive comes from, that is discipline. Harsh discipline is never good. It damages the child and the lower nature. Firm and steady resting in the higher principles redirecting the lower to its highest potential outcome, this is best. No point in alienating the lower.

Steven Otto
If you often not resist lower desires, f.e. to eat sweets, you harm your body and you can quickly become ill. That's evident. You mean, If I resist an illness I become sicker? seriously? I think, If someone is ill, he eat usually drugs to become healthy or in other words, he resist the illness with different methods to become healthy. This is on the physical plane, for the psychical plane, I don't know how to resist an illness? You? But however, I don't spoke about to resist illness, I spoke about to resist lower desires, and that's important for a spiritual development.

For me the best way to stay healthy is to live reasonable and we all know, that f.e. sweets are not reasonable.

Sometimes is "to bear down" not a good idea, then it is better to redirect forces, that we can't rule, and that means, to replace a bad or non-virtuous behavior with a virtuous behavior, but that protect us not, for impulses of lower desires, that we should ignore or resist, in any case, not follow or live that lower desires, because if all live in this way, it ends up in chaos, obviously.

And I wonder: I write from lower desires and first you confuse it with a child, than with the divine higher self and now with the lower principles. Wherever this lower desires come from, f.e. from habits, outside sensory stimulus, impulses from "kamaloka" and so on, I mean with lower desires not lower principle. The body f.e. is innocent of all of that. So please twist not my statements to get a better standing with your point of view.

And the statement "everything in moderation" is only an alibi to live the own lower desires, a self-deception to salve one's conscience or for excusing the weakness of will, because of course also f.e. sweets in moderation harms the body. Exceptions and compromises with the unreason leads us downwards and not upwards.

You said: "Combating the lower nature sets up the war within ourselves." Thats wrong. First I said "lower desires" and not "lower nature" a big difference and second, to resist the lower pleasures keeps in long term someone in peace with the higher self (because of karma). Only If you are living in the lower nature (materialistic life, the opposite of it is a spiritual live and the latter means of course a virtuous life) means, that you live your lower desires, it become uncomfortable, if you decided, to live virtuous, and that as long as you changed (based on your behavior)to the brighter side, and live more virtuous, as non-virtuous.

The reason for that is: If you unreasonable and you decided to become reasonable, you have in a metaphorical sense to combat (better to overcome) yourself, what only works with a strong will and that is the big problem today and the reason for such alibis, that I can hear from also from many others, that philosophize about theosophy and meanwhile eating steaks and drinking wine.

You said: "Harsh discipline is never good. It damages the child and the lower nature." So again an unfair dialectic, because I said it already, a child is not a lower desire. And it's not about break the will, but strengthen the will, which is a spiritual force. And I never wrote "harsh", think it's a kind of dramatize for your discussed intentions.

However, the outer discipline of the child, that parents should perform as long as it is possible, becomes in the later life of the child inner or self-discipline. And Discipline, mainly self-discipline, is the only way to follow our higher principles, because they request a spiritual life, means a virtuous life, because the spirit is life, light, love, sanity and peace and the matter or material is the opposite and that leads into death, darkness, hate, unreason and war. I count virtues to the first, and the vice to the latter and yes, without effort there will never be a development, and as above, so below and reverse.

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